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Post by nik on Apr 20, 2017 18:25:41 GMT
Naja, alle drei genannten Messer (Fujiwara, Tojiro, Kanetsugu) sind mit ein wenig "Sicherheitsreserven" ausgestattet und nicht ultra dünn ausgeschliffen, mal ganz abgesehen von der Serienstreung. Aber es soll ja schliesslich auch eher in Richtung robust gehen, wenn ich das richtig verstanden habe. Und man hat auch eine gute Basis, falls die ansprüche sich ändern sollten und das Messer später mal ausgedünnt werden soll.
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Post by zetieum on Apr 20, 2017 18:44:57 GMT
"Universal" : you want a Santoku. That is the definition of it. That definition strikes me as marketing though ("Santoku, the three virtues: fish, meat, vegetables"), tell me one thing a 180mm santoku can do that a 210mm gyuto can't! a santoku will be a better chopper because it has more clearance. Moreover, it will be a better for small paring tasks, because it is shorter. But nothing that cannot be made by a gyuto, I agree with you. It is also much easier to maintain because there is less curved, less complex grind (i.e. there is usually little or no difference between the heel and tip area in term of grind). It is also significantly less expansive than a 210 guyto, which mean that for 100 euros you will get a better quality knife. That being said: if I had to have only one knife, I would also go for a gyuto than a for a santoku. But that is only because I am a knife addict. Seven years ago, my biggest knife was a 210mm chef that I was considering as being too big for most tasks.. If the the friend is to get on knife for all, I would advice asantoku.
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Post by cheesesandwich on Apr 20, 2017 22:29:29 GMT
a santoku will be a better chopper because it has more clearance. Moreover, it will be a better for small paring tasks, because it is shorter. But nothing that cannot be made by a gyuto, I agree with you. It is also much easier to maintain because there is less curved, less complex grind (i.e. there is usually little or no difference between the heel and tip area in term of grind). It is also significantly less expansive than a 210 guyto, which mean that for 100 euros you will get a better quality knife. That being said: if I had to have only one knife, I would also go for a gyuto than a for a santoku. But that is only because I am a knife addict. Seven years ago, my biggest knife was a 210mm chef that I was considering as being too big for most tasks.. If the the friend is to get on knife for all, I would advice asantoku. Salut Mathieu, I agree about the knuckle clearance and chopping profile, although we're talking 1, 2 maybe 3 millimetres difference. Also I see your point of a shorter blade being useful for some tasks, but to be honest I think even paring is easier with the much pointier and slimmer shape of a guyto. Plus I think we can expect someone to have a small paring knife (Kneipchen) at home, and if not to buy one for <10€. I'm also not sure I agree on the "more bang for the buck" argument here, since a 180 Santoku should be compared to a 180 gyuto, in which case the santoku is in many cases the more expensive knife. I guess when most of us buy or recommend knives to friends, we kind of implicitely "educate" them to learn how to use a gyuto. That's because as knife nuts we know they will enjoy it more in the long run Cheers Philipp
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Post by zetieum on Apr 21, 2017 7:39:36 GMT
I guess when most of us buy or recommend knives to friends, we kind of implicitely "educate" them to learn how to use a gyuto. That's because as knife nuts we know they will enjoy it more in the long run Very very fair point. I can only agree with that.
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Post by Gabriel on Apr 21, 2017 8:16:49 GMT
klingt für mich nach einem klaren Fall fürs Fujiwara FKM 210 Gyuto von JCK. Wenn der einzige Unterschied zwischen den Fujaiwara FKM (rostträge) und FKH (rostend) der Stahl ist, könnte ich nach meiner Erfahrung mit dem FKH 180 das Messer nicht uneingeschränkt empfehlen. Vielleicht liegt es an der Serienstreuung, aber Schneidfreude war das nicht OOTB. Im Vergleich mit einem Eden Kanso oder auch mit einem Wasserkraft (da allerdings das Santoku) hat das Fujiwara kein Land gesehen. Ne ich glaube du bist da schon auf dem richtigen Weg... bei der Schneidfreude sehe ich nach den Exemplaren, die ich bisher in der Hand hatte, das Tojiro klar vorne! Allerdings wird hier ja viel wert auf Robustheit gelegt... und da wiederrum sehe ich das Fujiwara deutlich vorne... Eine gute Option wäre vielleicht auch das Wüsthof Cordon Blue was bei K&T aktuell im Angebot ist und dieses ausdünnen lassen??? Gruß, Gabriel
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Post by JoergD on Apr 21, 2017 8:58:18 GMT
Ich suche immer noch ein Argument, das 23 cm Messer für die 40 Euro nicht zu kaufen... Schnäppchenfieber? Aber da ich mich bei der K-Sabatier Sammelbestellung von cor dranhänge und es da das klassische 25 cm Kochmesser wird, brauche ich das Wüsthof eigentlich nicht... Viele Grüße Jörg
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Post by nik on Apr 21, 2017 9:32:14 GMT
Und ich bin kurz davor, mir das Tojiro PM zu kaufen. Es ist auch das erste mal dass ich den Stahl spezifiziert sehe (FAX18).... wäre es nur ein 270er Gabriel Also die beiden Exemplare (Fujiwara FKM und Tojiro DP) welche ich in der Hand hatte waren sehr ähnlich was den Anschliff/die Robustheit angeht. Ich hab mein Tojiro später dann aber etwas ausgedünnt.
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